Vibration started during ride last night

[Dtrmn8r]

Went for a ride last night, started getting a heavy vibration between 3300 and 3500 rpm on my 2009 M109r. It is noticable, heavy in 3rd, 4th, and 5th, but can feel it in 1st and 2nd too. Feels like a bit of a loss of power too, but that might just be me.

The oil level is fine, changed 1600km ago, I replaced motor mounts less than 1500 km ago, about 13000 km on bike, and have never had the problem before last night.

I found a lot of posts on this, but none very recent, and can not seem to find any definitive answers - bluey's fix seems to work for some, but not others, and I am wondering if anyone has any experience of how to solve this problem.

Thanks!

[gottattooz]

Check the easy stuff first.
#1 clutch cable. Sometimes the clutch cable doesn't sit in the adjustment bolt all the way, and causes a false clutch shudder. Also check the cable adjustment. The rule is stacking 3 quarters between the clutch lever and the perch like a feeler gauge. Anything less than that is too tight.

#2 Tires. Double-check your tire pressures. If you're unsure about what pressures to run, check the sidewall of the tire for the recommended pressure. Also, if you have wheel weights, make sure you didn't lose one. They'll be clipped to the middle of the rim, between the spokes. Not having a weight doesn't mean you lost one, but usually there's indications of one being installed by either a clean spot on a dirty rim, or maybe a little scratch where it used to be.

Loss of power with a vibration, to me, screams of a clutch issue. Hopefully it's a simple fix.

-Josh

[Dtrmn8r]

clutch adjustment is ok, tire pressure is fine, and running dyna beads.

And power is fine the rest of the time, except it seems like it loses a bit while it is actually shuddering - but like I said, that may just be me. It appears fine both before and after the shudder, and I have no problems at all if I do not hit 3500 rpm.

[pabohoney1]

Do you have any sort of fuel management?

[Dtrmn8r]

Do you have any sort of fuel management?

Power Commander V

[Dtrmn8r]

went solo for this ride, and problem is not as bad - but still there, gets worse as go through the gears, but still all around the 3500 rpm mark. It has lots of power through every gear, just the shudder - and not sure if it is losing power in 3rd, at 3500, but it has lots of power both before or after - does not feel like it is slipping, except maybe around the 3500, only in 3rd+...

Double checked everything again - oil, tire pressure, clutch adjustment - all looks fine. Had the fiance follow me, no wobbles or anything. But she did say my signals were not bright enough, so is ordering me some Kuryakn superbright bullets... that part is nice, the vibration, not so much!

[antmor69]

You say it just started? All m109s for the most part have a vibration in this rpm range.

[Big-B]

You say it just started? All m109s for the most part have a vibration in this rpm range.

YUp, mine does too. Harris told me what it was and how to fix it but I forget what he said. Somethin w/ the clutch basket I think. Could be way off though

[Dtrmn8r]

just started yesterday. Had the clunky shifting into second before, but no shudder like this at all, unless it was very minor. Huge difference between two days ago and yesterday.

[Davfrankl]

If some one figures out what it is I would like to know.

[Canuk]

Well the vibration around 3500 is common. However, this vibration doesn't start all of the sudden like you're describing. It slowly comes on, and gets worse over time.
The best fix for that is to replace the clutch basket. You can bend the tabs in on the clutch basket as well, but that also is temporary. The vibration will come back.
Based on what you're describing, it sounds like something else at play. Motor mounts, timing, throttle sync, not sure. ?
I would check the plugs, eyeball your mounts, and go from there.
Not much help here, but good luck with the investigation.

[DRIVEN]

The vibration around the 3500RPM is a common problem.
Mine has just started and the fix is 2 new motor mounts in the front.
Yes, motor mounts. They slowly wear and allow the motor to vibrate more.
I've just ordered a set from Suzuki and have to pick them up from the dealer.
2 other guys (CanadianM109R & Rudebwoy) have just finished replacing theirs.
They replaced theirs at 12,000km's (7,200 miles) and I'm replacing mine at 18,000km's (10,400 miles).
Do this before ripping your engine apart, then see if you feel a power loss.

Good luck guys.

[gottattooz]

The oil level is fine, changed 1600km ago, I replaced motor mounts less than 1500 km ago, about 13000 km on bike, and have never had the problem before last night. Thanks!

The vibration around the 3500RPM is a common problem.
Mine has just started and the fix is 2 new motor mounts in the front.
Yes, motor mounts. They slowly wear and allow the motor to vibrate more.
I've just ordered a set from Suzuki and have to pick them up from the dealer.
2 other guys (CanadianM109R & Rudebwoy) have just finished replacing theirs.
They replaced theirs at 12,000km's (7,200 miles) and I'm replacing mine at 18,000km's (10,400 miles).
Do this before ripping your engine apart, then see if you feel a power loss.

Good luck guys.

He stated that he already replaced the motor mounts.

-Josh

[Canuk]

He stated that he already replaced the motor mounts.

-Josh

Good Point. :)
I missed that.

[Canuk]

The vibration around the 3500RPM is a common problem.
Mine has just started and the fix is 2 new motor mounts in the front.
Yes, motor mounts. They slowly wear and allow the motor to vibrate more.
I've just ordered a set from Suzuki and have to pick them up from the dealer.
2 other guys (CanadianM109R & Rudebwoy) have just finished replacing theirs.
They replaced theirs at 12,000km's (7,200 miles) and I'm replacing mine at 18,000km's (10,400 miles).
Do this before ripping your engine apart, then see if you feel a power loss.

Good luck guys.

Hey Guy,
I can assure you, the vibration around 3500 rpm, may be exaggerated by worn out motor mounts, but the mounts are not the cause or fix. It is the clutch basket.
You will find that out, once you replace your motor mounts. It might run smoother after you install them, (mine didn't), but the vibration won't go away, until you deal with that clutch basket.
Drop me a line if you have questions, or need help. I don't live too far from you, and I've torn mine down many times.

[BigpapaM109]

Hey Guy,
I can assure you, the vibration around 3500 rpm, may be exaggerated by worn out motor mounts, but the mounts are not the cause or fix. It is the clutch basket.
You will find that out, once you replace your motor mounts. It might run smoother after you install them, (mine didn't), but the vibration won't go away, until you deal with that clutch basket.
Drop me a line if you have questions, or need help. I don't live too far from you, and I've torn mine down many times.

The part that needs to be replaced is known as the clutch hub. Part number is - 21410-48G00, shown below. The tabs around the springs weaken and the springs rattle and cause vibration, very noticeable in the 3500 rpm range. Mine is doing the same thing, and happened almost over night, unlike the last time. I replaced this part about 30k miles ago and the bike was butter smooth until I started riding this year. Out of the blue it became very noticeable and has steadily gotten worse. My motor mounts only have 4k miles on them and I know that is not the problem. I do have a spare hub in the basement that I will throw in at some point.

[rnspark]

Definitely sounds like a clutch problem of some sort

[Dtrmn8r]

How important is it to do this soon? I am getting married this month, have a lot of expenses, can't really afford the parts ($300 in Canada) at the moment - should I stop driving the bike until I can?

And I do my own mods, but this sounds like it might be a bit out of my league - never been inside a clutch before - how hard is it?

Thanks for the help!

[BigpapaM109]

How important is it to do this soon? I am getting married this month, have a lot of expenses, can't really afford the parts ($300 in Canada) at the moment - should I stop driving the bike until I can?

And I do my own mods, but this sounds like it might be a bit out of my league - never been inside a clutch before - how hard is it?

Thanks for the help!

Ride and don't worry about it. It won't hurt anything and is only annoying as of now. As far as doing it, very easy to do yourself.

Here is a good writeup on getting you through it. This is to fix the tube nut issue but you will see what you need to do.

http://pagreaves.com/109/clutch/clutch.htm

[bwl60]

Well the vibration around 3500 is common. However, this vibration doesn't start all of the sudden like you're describing. It slowly comes on, and gets worse over time.
The best fix for that is to replace the clutch basket. You can bend the tabs in on the clutch basket as well, but that also is temporary. The vibration will come back.
Based on what you're describing, it sounds like something else at play. Motor mounts, timing, throttle sync, not sure. ?
I would check the plugs, eyeball your mounts, and go from there.
Not much help here, but good luck with the investigation.

Wasn't this called the Bluey Fix in the past?

[BigpapaM109]

Wasn't this called the Bluey Fix in the past?

Correct. I originally did it and noticed it was wearing the tabs on the edges. I decided I didn't want to risk running the metal through the motor/filter so I swapped out to a new hub myself. Others continued and I never heard of any failures due to it. For me, the vibration came back fairly quickly. when I did it.

[Dtrmn8r]

Thanks everyone, and thanks for the offer Canuk, I will drop a line if I need some help on this!

[vdiazz]

How important is it to do this soon? I am getting married this month, have a lot of expenses, can't really afford the parts ($300 in Canada) at the moment - should I stop driving the bike until I can?

And I do my own mods, but this sounds like it might be a bit out of my league - never been inside a clutch before - how hard is it?

Thanks for the help!

Very easy to do. I just changed my #2 plate,wave washer,seat and added a new exhaust and I'm not a mechanic either. Took me about 3 hour. Just follow the directions that BigPapa posted.

[DRIVEN]

Hey Guy,
I can assure you, the vibration around 3500 rpm, may be exaggerated by worn out motor mounts, but the mounts are not the cause or fix. It is the clutch basket.
You will find that out, once you replace your motor mounts. It might run smoother after you install them, (mine didn't), but the vibration won't go away, until you deal with that clutch basket.
Drop me a line if you have questions, or need help. I don't live too far from you, and I've torn mine down many times.

Thanks for that Canuk.
I will pm you as I wouldn't want to waiste time and effort and not fix the problem.

Rick.

[2007LE]

The part that needs to be replaced is known as the clutch hub. Part number is - 21410-48G00, shown below. The tabs around the springs weaken and the springs rattle and cause vibration, very noticeable in the 3500 rpm range. Mine is doing the same thing, and happened almost over night, unlike the last time. I replaced this part about 30k miles ago and the bike was butter smooth until I started riding this year. Out of the blue it became very noticeable and has steadily gotten worse. My motor mounts only have 4k miles on them and I know that is not the problem. I do have a spare hub in the basement that I will throw in at some point.

I'm preparing to address this problem on my own bike now that I've taken care of some other issues. My question is whether or not someone has simply pried the metal tabs further away from the springs so that they don't hit when they vibrate. If they are bent further away from the springs, will the hub still seat properly when it is reinserted on the bike?

[CBR1000DUDE]

I'm preparing to address this problem on my own bike now that I've taken care of some other issues. My question is whether or not someone has simply pried the metal tabs further away from the springs so that they don't hit when they vibrate. If they are bent further away from the springs, will the hub still seat properly when it is reinserted on the bike?

The tabs are whats holding the springs in place, so bending the tabs away will make them even looser!
I bent mine down tight years ago by hitting them with a copper mallet with the basket flat on my work bench, and they've never given me any trouble since. Maybe not the fix for everyone,I don't put on that many miles, but it worked for me. I also replaced my front motor mounts with the harder compound rear mounts. Smooth as butter.
BTW, my 94 Goldwing with 162K miles clutch basket springs are still new looking and don't rattle. Pretty good design. It's like riding a huge sewing machine compared to using a sledge hammer going from bike to bike! I like both.

[kawzx7]

Does this cause a true power loss, or just the sensation of such?

[2007LE]

Does this cause a true power loss, or just the sensation of such?

I'm a newbie when it comes to the clutch. However, I can say for sure that the lack of vibration would certainly increase my overall confidence that the bike is performing the way it should. Smooth shifting will put my mind at ease. Vibrations tell me that something is wrong and and will probably get worse. If I had to venture an opinion (and like everyone - I have one too), I would say that there is nothing you can do to (or with) the clutch to add horsepower. The clutch doesn't fit into the equation for determining horsepower. You can see the equation at the following link: http://www.wisc-online.com/Objects/V...px?ID=ENG17504. The clutch is simply there to engage and disengage gears. If I'm wrong, I'm sure that someone will jump in here and slap my hands with a ruler.

[kawzx7]

I'm a newbie when it comes to the clutch. However, I can say for sure that the lack of vibration would certainly increase my overall confidence that the bike is performing the way it should. Smooth shifting will put my mind at ease. Vibrations tell me that something is wrong and and will probably get worse. If I had to venture an opinion (and like everyone - I have one too), I would say that there is nothing you can do to (or with) the clutch to add horsepower. The clutch doesn't fit into the equation for determining horsepower. You can see the equation at the following link: http://www.wisc-online.com/Objects/V...px?ID=ENG17504. The clutch is simply there to engage and disengage gears. If I'm wrong, I'm sure that someone will jump in here and slap my hands with a ruler.

I mean due to excessive clutch slip.

[2007LE]

After reading this thread, I finally decided that I would do the "bluie mod." Did it this morning and took the bike for a test tide. Could not believe the difference!! All this time I thought that the bike had an acceleration problem that eventually got so bad the bike shut down. Now I know that there were two different causes for my problems. One was the clutch sensor beneath the left hand grip area and the other was the vibrations from the clutch basket. When I went for a test ride, I couldn't believe how smooth it sounded and ran around 3000-3300 rpm. No longer did it sound like the bike was breaking up. I'm about to leave in just a few minutes for a ride with some local friends. This ride should verify what I've already noticed. HOPE SO! CBR1000Dude said that his fix lasted a long time. We'll see.